WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.060 Debbie Jackson: Do you have slides that you wanted to use or anything? 2 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:03.580 Jeryl Jones: Damn. 3 00:00:03.580 --> 00:00:15.299 Debbie Jackson: We need to make sure that you have permission to do. It looks like she started recording it, so I'll go ahead and do your introduction, and then I'll let her get you set up as a co-host. 4 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:18.430 Victoria Musheff: She's got permission to share, she should be okay. 5 00:00:18.430 --> 00:00:33.840 Debbie Jackson: Okay, good. For… and we've got a good group coming on, too, so that's good, too. So, we are all excited to have you with us today, and for those of you who do not know Dr. Jerry Jones, she completed her undergraduate degree in pre-professional studies 6 00:00:33.990 --> 00:00:44.150 Debbie Jackson: at Clemson University in 1980. During her time as a student at Clemson, she worked as a research assistant for several projects and developed an interest in research. 7 00:00:44.180 --> 00:00:56.439 Debbie Jackson: She earned her DVM from the University of Georgia, and served as a private practice associate veterinarian in New York, in South Carolina, and in Alabama. 8 00:00:56.500 --> 00:01:10.639 Debbie Jackson: She completed a combined residency PhD program at Auburn University in 1995 to become a diplomat in the American College of Veterinary Radiology, and earned a Doctor of Philosophy degree in Biomedical Sciences. 9 00:01:10.780 --> 00:01:14.469 Debbie Jackson: She's served as a tenured professor at Virginia Tech. 10 00:01:14.630 --> 00:01:23.709 Debbie Jackson: West Virginia University and at Clemson. She served as the Director of the Preclinical Assessment Corps for the South Carolina 11 00:01:24.070 --> 00:01:38.829 Debbie Jackson: TRIMH COBRA grant, and the leader of the One Health Research Group at Clemson. And we're excited to have her today to talk about the pros and cons of pet ownership as we age. So, Jerry, I'm going to turn it over to you. 12 00:01:39.190 --> 00:01:47.550 Jeryl Jones: Thank you so much. Hello, everybody. It's really great to see you today, virtually. Sorry about the, virtual thing. 13 00:01:47.700 --> 00:01:51.330 Jeryl Jones: But, we're gonna just move forward with this, and… 14 00:01:51.610 --> 00:01:58.459 Jeryl Jones: Begin with just the idea of why, and the reason that this topic came up 15 00:01:58.770 --> 00:02:11.079 Jeryl Jones: twofold. One is that I recently had a research collaborator who wanted to do a research project about the human-animal bond, especially for people that are dealing with cancer. 16 00:02:11.180 --> 00:02:16.770 Jeryl Jones: And we did an extensive literature review related to that topic at the time. 17 00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:34.809 Jeryl Jones: And the other reason that this has kind of come up is that my husband and I are in this process right now. We're, seniors now. We have an old, old dog, and we've had conversations about, well, what are we going to do when that old dog goes? And there's been a lot of back and forth. 18 00:02:35.170 --> 00:02:44.189 Jeryl Jones: So, we're gonna come at it from those two points of view, and as a professor, of course, when people ask me a question, my first 19 00:02:44.190 --> 00:02:57.350 Jeryl Jones: thing I do is, well, let me do some reading and get back to you. And so, this literature review is going to be what we're going to focus on today, and the results of that literature review. 20 00:02:58.020 --> 00:03:08.369 Jeryl Jones: The first paper that I found was published in a journal that is focused on the human-animal bond. It's called Anthrozoos. 21 00:03:08.370 --> 00:03:17.740 Victoria Musheff: Terry, your PowerPoint is not showing. Are you seeing your PowerPoint? It's showing the file. Did you click on the file? 22 00:03:17.740 --> 00:03:20.799 Jeryl Jones: Alright, let me experiment with something else here. 23 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:23.870 Victoria Musheff: If not, I can pull it up for you and just advance slides. 24 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:25.040 Jeryl Jones: Did that work? 25 00:03:25.090 --> 00:03:26.220 Victoria Musheff: Now I see it, yes. 26 00:03:26.220 --> 00:03:26.780 Debbie Jackson: Let's go. 27 00:03:26.900 --> 00:03:28.370 Victoria Musheff: Sorry! Apologies. 28 00:03:28.370 --> 00:03:40.700 Jeryl Jones: Apologize for that. All right, and so, this is the first journal that we… we found, a systematic review of the literature in this one, and this is, 29 00:03:40.980 --> 00:03:43.349 Jeryl Jones: An overview of… 30 00:03:43.530 --> 00:03:56.749 Jeryl Jones: Pet Ownership and Interactions Among Older Adults, and this was published in 2019, and they reviewed over 100 original investigation papers, most of which were 31 00:03:57.430 --> 00:04:10.319 Jeryl Jones: kind of, survey-based for the most part. They also had some studies where they were looking at, human-animal interactions using animal-assisted therapy. 32 00:04:10.390 --> 00:04:22.499 Jeryl Jones: And animal-assisted therapy is where a pet or companion animal is brought to a person, and then that person has an interaction, and then they measure some sort of a… 33 00:04:22.900 --> 00:04:34.689 Jeryl Jones: effect that the pet interaction had on that person. So the only data we currently have that are based on 34 00:04:34.690 --> 00:04:48.690 Jeryl Jones: Randomized control trials, quantifying metrics such as cortisol levels, blood pressure, things like that. Most of those studies are based on animal-assisted therapy rather than pet ownership. 35 00:04:48.690 --> 00:04:58.159 Jeryl Jones: The majority of studies based on pet ownership have been survey-based, and there's been a wide variety of those that have been done, and this is one of those. 36 00:04:58.690 --> 00:05:13.960 Jeryl Jones: We also found one in the Journal of Geriatric Psychology from 2022 that was focused more on dog ownership, and that was focused on people that were living in residential communities. 37 00:05:15.090 --> 00:05:33.640 Jeryl Jones: This one was clinical gerontology, and this one was focused on a wide variety of companion animals in older people, and this one was predominantly in, Canada, that the results of this one were found, and this was 2020. 38 00:05:34.710 --> 00:05:53.039 Jeryl Jones: This one was also 2019, and this was looking more at, over the course of a person's life, how does the pet affect their well-being? What are the pros and cons? Again, Anthrozoes, which is a journal focused on human-animal bond. 39 00:05:53.640 --> 00:05:58.919 Jeryl Jones: We found this Canadian Journal on Aging paper about cats and dogs. 40 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:13.320 Jeryl Jones: specifically about aging in place. So, how does the ownership of a cat or a dog affect a person's ability to age in place, and whether there are pros and cons there? That one came out in 2023. 41 00:06:13.490 --> 00:06:28.679 Jeryl Jones: And I'm providing all of these slides to you guys so that those of you who want to look these articles up and read about these things yourself can do so. Aging in Society is another journal. A 2020 article here was about… 42 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:39.370 Jeryl Jones: Maintaining independence, you know, and then the pros and cons of pet ownership for that. And this was also specifically focusing on people living in residential communities. 43 00:06:39.810 --> 00:06:42.440 Jeryl Jones: And this was also coming out of Canada. 44 00:06:44.140 --> 00:06:46.830 Jeryl Jones: this article from Geriatrics. 45 00:06:47.050 --> 00:07:05.499 Jeryl Jones: was looking at how pet ownership impacts frailty in older people, especially. And this one's coming out of Japan. So are there, is there any evidence that frailty is reduced or not in people that own pets? 46 00:07:06.420 --> 00:07:20.900 Jeryl Jones: So what I did was I kind of summarized all of the data from all of these articles, and put together some tables of pros and cons based on the results of these studies. 47 00:07:21.190 --> 00:07:26.239 Jeryl Jones: And there is pretty strong evidence from all of these studies 48 00:07:26.440 --> 00:07:37.790 Jeryl Jones: That dog ownership especially can increase physical activity and social interactions in owners, and therefore can help reduce frailty. 49 00:07:38.010 --> 00:07:46.200 Jeryl Jones: and the data that were available in these studies. There's also pretty strong evidence that interacting with a pet 50 00:07:46.450 --> 00:07:49.270 Jeryl Jones: Can actually reduce blood pressure. 51 00:07:49.420 --> 00:07:54.199 Jeryl Jones: And increased life expectancy in some owners with hypertension. 52 00:07:54.870 --> 00:08:06.410 Jeryl Jones: There's also strong evidence in all of the studies, fairly consistently coming out, that pet ownership can motivate people to keep a regular schedule. 53 00:08:06.580 --> 00:08:12.659 Jeryl Jones: Can improve their ability or motivate them to take better care of themselves. 54 00:08:12.950 --> 00:08:18.049 Jeryl Jones: And a big part of that is coming from self-reported 55 00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:30.350 Jeryl Jones: Answers indicating that I need to take care of myself because my animal needs me. So, very strong evidence supporting that aspect as a pro of pet ownership. 56 00:08:30.890 --> 00:08:42.020 Jeryl Jones: Reduced depression has more variable results. There are some studies that show there's no effect on depression. There are some studies that show pet ownership definitely reduces depression. 57 00:08:42.610 --> 00:08:48.020 Jeryl Jones: But they're really strong evidence that it reduces feelings of loneliness. 58 00:08:48.140 --> 00:08:51.760 Jeryl Jones: People report saying that once they adopted a pet. 59 00:08:51.880 --> 00:08:56.569 Jeryl Jones: They felt more needed, they felt more… 60 00:08:56.710 --> 00:09:07.600 Jeryl Jones: Supported. They felt happier, and they had a higher feeling of well-being, especially if they were feeling lonely prior to pet ownership. 61 00:09:08.110 --> 00:09:17.700 Jeryl Jones: There's also a lot of survey data indicating that pet ownership can give owners a feeling of protection, or security, or feelings of safety. 62 00:09:17.830 --> 00:09:30.360 Jeryl Jones: The strongest evidence, of course, is for owners that have things like post-traumatic stress disorder, for example. Many, many papers indicating that 63 00:09:30.520 --> 00:09:42.070 Jeryl Jones: People with that particular disorder gain a huge amount of benefit from owning a trained dog to give them feelings of safety and security. 64 00:09:42.450 --> 00:09:48.249 Jeryl Jones: And then another thing that came out as a positive of pet ownership was feelings of… 65 00:09:48.620 --> 00:09:53.100 Jeryl Jones: Improved ability to handle challenging circumstances. 66 00:09:53.190 --> 00:10:10.240 Jeryl Jones: It was an interesting observation that I hadn't really thought about before, but apparently the people responding to the survey said that their ability to cope with a challenging situation was improved by observing their pet, and what it was was their pet's 67 00:10:11.040 --> 00:10:15.320 Jeryl Jones: Ability to live in the moment, and be resilient. 68 00:10:15.780 --> 00:10:30.209 Jeryl Jones: actually motivated them and gave them a feeling of, I can weather this storm, because they were actually able to sort of model a behavior of their pet, which is an interesting observation that came out. 69 00:10:31.210 --> 00:10:37.210 Jeryl Jones: The disadvantages are definitely there, right? And that also came out in the survey data, that… 70 00:10:37.340 --> 00:10:48.169 Jeryl Jones: For some owners, the feelings of bereavement and grief that they had when they lost their pet were severe and very, very difficult for them. 71 00:10:48.340 --> 00:11:02.300 Jeryl Jones: Another aspect was that some owners who were trying to find alternative housing after they had to leave a rental or were moving into a residential community had difficulty finding a place that would take their pets. 72 00:11:03.350 --> 00:11:10.059 Jeryl Jones: The other data that came out of these surveys indicating that pet ownership can increase the risk 73 00:11:10.310 --> 00:11:21.480 Jeryl Jones: of medical problems in some pet owners. Examples were injuries from bites or scratches, people having allergic reactions to their pet. 74 00:11:21.630 --> 00:11:25.899 Jeryl Jones: People developing infectious diseases from their pet, and one of the… 75 00:11:26.060 --> 00:11:39.780 Jeryl Jones: A lot of data coming out about ownership of birds increasing risks for some respiratory diseases in their owners, and falling injuries, you know, walking a dog, tripping over a pet. 76 00:11:39.780 --> 00:11:46.859 Jeryl Jones: Those kinds of things came out in the survey data as a disadvantage of pet ownership for older people. 77 00:11:47.260 --> 00:11:54.280 Jeryl Jones: Another thing that came out in the survey data were the concerns about pet ownership causing huge demands on time. 78 00:11:54.420 --> 00:12:00.690 Jeryl Jones: high levels of responsibilities for pet ownership, depending on the type of pet, right? So… 79 00:12:01.180 --> 00:12:06.480 Jeryl Jones: Dogs, especially. Cats, less so. Birds, yes. 80 00:12:06.790 --> 00:12:10.930 Jeryl Jones: Fish, maybe not so much. Pocket pets, maybe not so much. 81 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:19.460 Jeryl Jones: And then another thing that came out of the survey data were the concerns about veterinary costs. You know, veterinary care expenses. 82 00:12:19.680 --> 00:12:35.670 Jeryl Jones: Are going up higher and higher and higher, and there were many pet owners that commented in their surveys that the cost of veterinary care for their pet was a huge problem for them, and very, very difficult, and a source of a lot of stress. 83 00:12:36.310 --> 00:12:41.060 Jeryl Jones: And then another thing that was a negative that came out in the survey data was that some 84 00:12:41.170 --> 00:12:53.410 Jeryl Jones: People were worried that as they aged, maybe they would have reduced mental capacity… mental capacity, and would they be able to maintain welfare of their pet if that happened? 85 00:12:54.050 --> 00:13:03.120 Jeryl Jones: So, the data came out that there's pros and cons, pretty strong on both sides. What are our guidelines? 86 00:13:03.790 --> 00:13:11.320 Jeryl Jones: And I think that this boils down to there's no clear evidence, one way or the other, that there's a net positive or a net negative. 87 00:13:11.560 --> 00:13:26.199 Jeryl Jones: It really, really… the data supported making a decision based on individual priorities. So everybody has to kind of look at the pros and cons for themselves, reflect on what their own priorities are. 88 00:13:26.550 --> 00:13:34.769 Jeryl Jones: But do so with their eyes wide open, that… that there are going to be negatives as well as positives to this decision. 89 00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:41.640 Jeryl Jones: But for some people, you know, the positives outweigh the negatives, and for other people, the negatives outweigh the positives. 90 00:13:43.410 --> 00:13:56.759 Jeryl Jones: If the veterinary cost factor is a huge concern, the good news is that there's a growing number of community veterinary practices that are focused on what we call spectrum of care. 91 00:13:57.130 --> 00:14:13.749 Jeryl Jones: Spectrum of care management means that when a client comes in with a pet, with a medical problem, the veterinarians are trained to provide the client with a range of options from the least expensive to the ideal. 92 00:14:13.830 --> 00:14:30.909 Jeryl Jones: And the client… and help that client make that decision, so that they don't instantly go to, here's this battery of expensive tests you've got to run, here's this battery of expensive treatments you've got to do, which happens at some veterinary practices. 93 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:38.570 Jeryl Jones: We're growing, more and more aware that veterinarians need to be able to provide 94 00:14:38.670 --> 00:14:56.910 Jeryl Jones: a wide range of choices to their clients and help them make that decision. And that's a big part of what the curriculum at the new College of Veterinary Medicine here at Clemson is going to be working on, is ensuring that students graduating from the program are trained in how to do that as well. 95 00:14:58.950 --> 00:15:07.040 Jeryl Jones: The other good thing that's beginning to happen is there's more accessible help out there for pet care. 96 00:15:07.210 --> 00:15:18.720 Jeryl Jones: There's a new app, and I don't know if any of you've used this, but I had not used it before, recently it was introduced to me, that allows you to choose a pet caregiver 97 00:15:18.920 --> 00:15:28.780 Jeryl Jones: Using, reviews, and you plug in your location, you get a list of people that are available as pet caregivers in your area. 98 00:15:28.780 --> 00:15:42.409 Jeryl Jones: You get information about each of those people, you get client reviews about them, you get information about, how long they've been doing what they're doing, what kinds of services they provide. 99 00:15:42.410 --> 00:15:57.150 Jeryl Jones: And what their experience is, whether they've got other animals in their household, whether they can keep your animal in their house or come to your house. So the range of options available for getting help with pet care has really increased. 100 00:15:58.490 --> 00:16:15.949 Jeryl Jones: And the other thing that's increased over time is the availability of animal-assisted therapy, so for people who don't feel like they can really own a pet for a variety of reasons, there may be opportunities to get benefits from interacting with an animal. 101 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:25.280 Jeryl Jones: through an animal-assisted therapy program. And we do have a couple of them here locally. We have one called SC Dogs for therapy dog interaction. 102 00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:31.670 Jeryl Jones: And the Clemson Equine Center also has some opportunities for equine-assisted therapy. 103 00:16:33.270 --> 00:16:44.850 Jeryl Jones: And the other big question that people often ask is, what's the best pet, you know, for a person who's a senior who has some, limitations in what they can do in the way of housing or whatever. 104 00:17:40.590 --> 00:17:47.770 Victoria Musheff: So we just lost sound, and Jerry, I'm not sure if she's gonna sign back in, and I apologize for that. I'm not sure what happened. 105 00:17:52.990 --> 00:17:56.249 Victoria Musheff: We're gonna let her wait here a minute and let her sign back in. 106 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.099 Victoria Musheff: Looks like Debbie also signed off. 107 00:18:07.660 --> 00:18:09.340 Victoria Musheff: There's Debbie again. 108 00:18:21.500 --> 00:18:25.649 Victoria Musheff: We can tell jokes until Jerry gets back. There's Jerry. 109 00:18:26.080 --> 00:18:27.729 Victoria Musheff: We're not sure what happened. 110 00:18:28.990 --> 00:18:31.439 Jeryl Jones: Edu Rome just went out on me. 111 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.749 Victoria Musheff: Oh, no, it's okay, just start over, we're good. 112 00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:37.500 Jeryl Jones: Alright, let's do this again. 113 00:18:38.030 --> 00:18:40.510 Jeryl Jones: So, where did you lose me? 114 00:18:40.510 --> 00:18:43.390 Debbie Jackson: Best Pets for Seniors, so I'm 16. 115 00:18:43.390 --> 00:18:44.220 Victoria Musheff: Seniors. 116 00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:47.580 Jeryl Jones: What about guidelines? 117 00:18:47.890 --> 00:18:51.979 Victoria Musheff: Nope, scroll down to Best Pets for Seniors, maybe right there. 118 00:18:51.980 --> 00:18:52.660 Debbie Jackson: Aren't there. 119 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:56.840 Jeryl Jones: All right. 120 00:18:56.840 --> 00:18:57.340 Victoria Musheff: Thank you. 121 00:18:57.340 --> 00:18:59.389 Jeryl Jones: Are you able to see that now? Yes. 122 00:18:59.390 --> 00:19:00.030 Victoria Musheff: Thank you. 123 00:19:00.300 --> 00:19:01.670 Jeryl Jones: I apologize. 124 00:19:01.800 --> 00:19:09.980 Jeryl Jones: Alright, so, as a veterinarian, I get people asking me the question all the time of what's the best pet for me. 125 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:14.920 Jeryl Jones: And I do the same thing. I pretty much just ask them questions about… 126 00:19:15.090 --> 00:19:29.509 Jeryl Jones: Their, previous experience with pets, where they live, whether they have any medical limitations or mobility limitations, things like that. And then, make advice based on that. 127 00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:47.749 Jeryl Jones: So, I did some Googling and found these websites that are out there that offer advice very similar to what I've given over the years of the types of pets that are out there, the pros and cons of those particular types of pets, so that people can kind of customize 128 00:19:47.750 --> 00:19:50.650 Jeryl Jones: The list of options based on 129 00:19:50.650 --> 00:20:03.570 Jeryl Jones: a lot of variables that include those kinds of things, and I'm happy to chat with people individually if they have questions as well, but these, I thought, were pretty good websites that had some good resources. 130 00:20:05.990 --> 00:20:17.100 Jeryl Jones: And with that, I wanted to open it up, you know, for you guys to share your own experiences and, with others in the group, and… 131 00:20:17.330 --> 00:20:19.200 Jeryl Jones: Talk a little bit about… 132 00:20:19.330 --> 00:20:29.709 Jeryl Jones: If you've chosen to own a pet yourself, what were your reasons? And if you've chosen not to own a pet, what were those reasons? And we can kind of go from there. 133 00:20:30.130 --> 00:20:37.040 Jeryl Jones: And I'll stop sharing and… Open up the gallery so you guys can tell me what you think. 134 00:20:38.520 --> 00:20:40.759 Jeryl Jones: And ask any questions you might have. 135 00:20:42.090 --> 00:20:55.670 Debbie Jackson: While other people are unmuting, I'll ask one. I'm curious about which… what diseases you're seeing with birds in particular, because we have a Quaker parrot, and we've got 26 parakeets. 136 00:20:56.010 --> 00:21:01.160 Jeryl Jones: So, what's important is if you develop a respiratory problem. 137 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:01.790 Debbie Jackson: Okay. 138 00:21:01.790 --> 00:21:07.510 Jeryl Jones: Especially if you develop a respiratory problem that goes away and comes back. 139 00:21:07.930 --> 00:21:11.820 Jeryl Jones: It's important to let your medical doctor know that you own birds. 140 00:21:12.490 --> 00:21:24.799 Jeryl Jones: And there's a list of various respiratory diseases that birds can transmit to people. One of the most common ones is aspergillosis, and another one is histoplasmosis. 141 00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:25.560 Debbie Jackson: Okay. 142 00:21:25.930 --> 00:21:33.349 Jeryl Jones: And, if, there's some specific tests that your doctor can do to see which one you might possibly have. 143 00:21:33.510 --> 00:21:39.199 Jeryl Jones: And then you can consult with your veterinarian to get a treatment plan in place for your birds as well. 144 00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:40.340 Debbie Jackson: Okay. 145 00:21:41.780 --> 00:21:45.580 Jeryl Jones: But that's probably the most common concern, is respiratory disease. 146 00:21:45.810 --> 00:21:46.590 Debbie Jackson: Okay. 147 00:21:48.110 --> 00:21:58.619 Victoria Musheff: Any question about the community vet services. How do you know you're dealing with… I mean, is there… do they have that in their title? I mean, how do you know you're dealing with a vet who's thinking along those lines? 148 00:21:58.980 --> 00:22:10.109 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, so basically you Google community practices in your area, and there is currently, one in Greenville that's associated with the Humane Society. 149 00:22:10.110 --> 00:22:10.490 Victoria Musheff: Oh. 150 00:22:10.490 --> 00:22:14.900 Jeryl Jones: And, they offer reduced-cost veterinary services. 151 00:22:15.100 --> 00:22:24.499 Jeryl Jones: for things like spays, neuters, vaccinations, wellness types of things, you have to apply, and demonstrate need. 152 00:22:24.620 --> 00:22:32.239 Jeryl Jones: But they… they offer that. We also have, Clemson Paws… Paw Partners here in Clemson. 153 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:38.140 Jeryl Jones: That offers some reduced veterinary care services for people in the community that need it. 154 00:22:38.220 --> 00:22:57.170 Jeryl Jones: They also… they also do Meals on Wheels for seniors, and they bring, meals to the people and to the pets. That's nice. So they do a lot of really cool stuff. And then I think the Clemson University's, veterinary hospital, veterinary school is planning to have a community practice as well. 155 00:22:57.250 --> 00:23:14.459 Jeryl Jones: And I'll, I've been chatting with some of the faculty that are going to be involved in that, and I'd be happy to send you information about their contact information if you think it'd be helpful to have them come talk about their plans for the community practice at the veterinary school. 156 00:23:15.340 --> 00:23:19.720 Jeryl Jones: I said, last time I talked to them, they said it's planned for 2027. 157 00:23:20.570 --> 00:23:21.790 Victoria Musheff: Okay. 158 00:23:22.340 --> 00:23:38.289 Victoria Musheff: I also have a question about insurance, pet insurance. Of course, this was not a thing when I was a child, and I carry pet insurance because I'm just terrified to have that cancer diagnosis or something for my dog, but do you recommend it? I mean, it can be costly, a big monthly cost. 159 00:23:38.610 --> 00:23:46.180 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, and again, when I have a client ask me that as an individual, I always have that list of questions. I say, well, tell me something about… 160 00:23:46.750 --> 00:23:58.399 Jeryl Jones: How much you think you could afford per month for this, and tell me something about, your previous experiences with high veterinary bills, and some of the concerns that you may have. 161 00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:14.190 Jeryl Jones: And again, it's just like making any other insurance decision for yourself, right? There's pros and cons of each plan, and there are benefits and risks for each plan, and we can kind of take it from there, so it's pretty individualized. 162 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:32.660 Victoria Musheff: I know the first, thing they did with my… they asked for the records of your animal, and then they exclude everything, and it's like, okay. So, like, anything that's pre-existing, you know, they, sometimes permanently exclude it, sometimes it's for a time period, so it makes you wonder a little bit, I think. 163 00:24:32.660 --> 00:24:43.019 Jeryl Jones: Every insurance company's different, and you can shop around and get different deductibles and different things that are covered, yeah. It's just like people insurance. 164 00:24:43.410 --> 00:24:44.080 Victoria Musheff: Okay. 165 00:24:44.580 --> 00:24:56.389 Jeryl Jones: But yeah, I think that's a good conversation to have when you make a… you're making a decision about pet adoption or pet ownership, is have that conversation, probably with your own vet. 166 00:24:56.740 --> 00:25:01.369 Jeryl Jones: About the pros and cons, and the different kinds of policies, and if they have 167 00:25:01.470 --> 00:25:04.599 Jeryl Jones: Experience with some working better than others. 168 00:25:06.210 --> 00:25:10.379 Jeryl Jones: But yeah, they're all different. All the policies are different, and all the companies are different. 169 00:25:12.090 --> 00:25:19.749 Debbie Jackson: Do you think it's easy… do you think it's easier for older people to adopt older dogs if they're looking at dogs and getting puppies? 170 00:25:20.180 --> 00:25:28.579 Debbie Jackson: I'm wondering if just the taking care… puppies are, I mean, really active, and… Can be sort of, 171 00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:33.260 Debbie Jackson: Take a lot of training time, but an older dog might be… 172 00:25:34.590 --> 00:25:39.100 Debbie Jackson: already pre-trained or ready for things. I don't know if it's… 173 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:46.930 Debbie Jackson: I don't know if that's a better way to go, or if it's… if the bereavement issue is a… more of a problem, because they're more likely to die. 174 00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:57.339 Jeryl Jones: So, the advantage of adopting a puppy is that you get a deeper, bond, typically. 175 00:25:57.600 --> 00:26:05.490 Jeryl Jones: That when you're raising a puppy, they bond to you more, and you have an opportunity to train them to be what you want them to be. 176 00:26:05.810 --> 00:26:11.190 Jeryl Jones: And you will also, Have them longer. 177 00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:20.670 Jeryl Jones: In general, right? But the advantage of adopting an adult dog is that you will not have to go through the puppy training period. 178 00:26:21.350 --> 00:26:39.100 Jeryl Jones: And they can still bond with you, and you can still have a very, very close relationship, but the unknowns are medical issues. You don't know whether they have pre-existing medical issues that are going to cost you a lot of money for veterinary care, and you won't have them as long. 179 00:26:39.190 --> 00:26:45.769 Jeryl Jones: Everybody has to kind of make that pro and con choice in their mind. I think if you're home a lot. 180 00:26:46.890 --> 00:26:49.940 Jeryl Jones: And you don't have a lot of outside activities. 181 00:26:50.780 --> 00:27:01.710 Jeryl Jones: A puppy might be the way to go, you know, because you're there, and you can kind of train them and, you know, work with them to get them to be what you want them to be. 182 00:27:07.620 --> 00:27:12.329 Debbie Jackson: I don't want to take up all the time, so if other people have some questions, just unmute yourself. 183 00:27:14.550 --> 00:27:17.959 Debbie Jackson: I know Kathy Headley has 2 new puppies with her. 184 00:27:18.260 --> 00:27:23.769 Kathy Headley: I do, and I will add, Jerry, thank you for being with us. I was really interested 185 00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:33.059 Kathy Headley: In this session, I've already… You can hear mine. I've already adopted two small dogs. They had, 186 00:27:33.630 --> 00:27:44.670 Kathy Headley: previous owner who passed away, and the family very thoughtfully rehomed. So, I'm lucky. Yes, there were 2 years and 4 years there, trained. 187 00:27:45.020 --> 00:27:49.790 Kathy Headley: A family could give me information, as well as vet records, so… 188 00:27:49.890 --> 00:27:53.840 Kathy Headley: It has really been a blessing to me. 189 00:27:54.100 --> 00:28:04.599 Kathy Headley: Because I can do my activities, but I'm home, you know, a good bit with them, too. It's a mix and match, and we have just fit together well. 190 00:28:05.500 --> 00:28:09.429 Jeryl Jones: So the advantages of dis… outweigh the disadvantages in your mind. 191 00:28:09.430 --> 00:28:15.569 Kathy Headley: That's right. They… they are… they are wonderful, and I'm loving having them. 192 00:28:16.450 --> 00:28:18.319 Lee Crandall: So, so, 193 00:28:18.350 --> 00:28:28.429 Lee Crandall: The last time I purchased a pet was over 50 years ago when I was a graduate student, and ever since then, I have always had pets, and they've all been 194 00:28:28.430 --> 00:28:43.329 Lee Crandall: either strays that I took in or rescues, and the most recent addition to our family is a little black kitten that my dog adopted. The kitten was hiding in the bushes and wouldn't come anywhere near people, but 195 00:28:43.330 --> 00:28:47.660 Lee Crandall: my dog, who's a Staffordshire Terrier, pit bull-looking dog. 196 00:28:47.660 --> 00:29:03.640 Lee Crandall: That people are afraid of, that cats love, and the kitten came right up to her, and over a matter of a few days, we managed to get her to follow the dog into the house when we walked the dog, and so she's been in the house now for about 6 months, and… 197 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:06.369 Lee Crandall: Finally reached the point where we can actually pet her. 198 00:29:07.110 --> 00:29:10.389 Jeryl Jones: Wow. So, are you gonna get her a spade? 199 00:29:10.660 --> 00:29:12.740 Lee Crandall: Yeah, soon, I hope. 200 00:29:12.740 --> 00:29:14.060 Jeryl Jones: I would recommend… 201 00:29:14.060 --> 00:29:21.010 Lee Crandall: Still trying to get her a little more confident with being touched before we try to do that with her. 202 00:29:21.010 --> 00:29:27.769 Jeryl Jones: One thing you can do, to get her to the vet to be spayed is you can, 203 00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:32.220 Jeryl Jones: use a have-a-heart trap. I know it feels scary and mean. 204 00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:36.280 Jeryl Jones: But a have a heart trap is a very humane way. 205 00:29:36.460 --> 00:29:42.920 Jeryl Jones: to at least get them to the vet to get them spayed. But I would certainly encourage doing that sooner rather than later. 206 00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:52.070 Lee Crandall: So what we've been doing is getting her used to eating in the cat carrier. Okay. And so, at some point, when we have a vet appointment, we'll just close the back door to the cat carrier, and then… 207 00:29:52.070 --> 00:29:52.540 Jeryl Jones: Okay. 208 00:29:52.540 --> 00:29:59.109 Lee Crandall: And then she's ready to go. But I think they'll have to sedate her when they take her out. 209 00:29:59.110 --> 00:30:06.150 Jeryl Jones: No, they're used to that. They know how to do that, but you don't want to… you don't want her going into heat. You'll be sorry. 210 00:30:06.150 --> 00:30:12.129 Lee Crandall: Oh, no, she's… I think she's been in heat lately. She's been rolling around on her back and meowing all night long, so… 211 00:30:12.460 --> 00:30:18.299 Jeryl Jones: And she'll try to get out, and if she gets out, there will be kittens. 212 00:30:18.300 --> 00:30:28.940 Lee Crandall: Yeah, well, she's not really tried very hard to get out, and where we live, I've never seen a stray cat other than her. And she was like… 213 00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:47.569 Lee Crandall: I thought she was a bird at first, because we kept hearing this tiny little peep coming from the bushes, and the dog kept sticking her nose in there, and then finally, one day, we saw this kitten in there. I don't know who dropped her off or how she got there, because, you know, we're not in an area where there are a lot of stray animals around. 214 00:30:47.820 --> 00:30:50.840 Jeryl Jones: Oh, wow, what a lucky kitten. 215 00:30:51.150 --> 00:31:14.699 Lee Crandall: And my senior, or my middle-aged cat was always sitting on the counter, looking out the window, and I guess that's what he was looking at, too, because they've really bonded since we brought them in. And then my other cat is now almost 17 years old, and she was a Clemson adoption when we lived there. Found her soaking wet kitten on Thanksgiving Day out in the park. 216 00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:15.859 Lee Crandall: Brought her home. 217 00:31:15.860 --> 00:31:18.979 Lee Crandall: Told my wife, we'll just keep her till we find the owners. 218 00:31:19.130 --> 00:31:21.460 Lee Crandall: So that was 17 years ago. 219 00:31:21.930 --> 00:31:23.275 Jeryl Jones: happens. 220 00:31:24.830 --> 00:31:29.219 Jeryl Jones: Sounds like they've been very, very lucky to have found you, Lee. 221 00:31:36.310 --> 00:31:42.569 Debbie Jackson: Do, I saw an ad the other day for a new kind of flea medicine. 222 00:31:42.770 --> 00:31:52.609 Debbie Jackson: That was an injection that you took once a year. Do you know very much about that? Is it as effective as some of the things that are currently being used? 223 00:31:52.860 --> 00:32:03.009 Jeryl Jones: I don't. I don't have the data on that, but I agree with you, that has been recently introduced, especially helpful for animals that are harder to catch. 224 00:32:03.430 --> 00:32:09.649 Jeryl Jones: and treat. So, say you're taking care of some outdoor cats. 225 00:32:09.930 --> 00:32:29.220 Jeryl Jones: and you're worried about the fact that they've got fleas, all you gotta do is catch them once a year. So there's a lot of advantages to that, for those particular types of situations. But, I'm not familiar with the data on whether they're more effective than less effective than some of the more traditional ones. 226 00:32:29.560 --> 00:32:30.370 Jeryl Jones: I can look that up. 227 00:32:30.370 --> 00:32:34.079 Debbie Jackson: Yeah, that was the best thing that ever happened, was getting something that would help. 228 00:32:34.460 --> 00:32:36.370 Debbie Jackson: Manage fleas and ticks. 229 00:32:36.620 --> 00:32:49.670 Jeryl Jones: Oh, yeah. I remember the days… I was at Auburn University when they were doing some of the research on some of the things like Spot On, which was that topical that you put between their shoulder blades. 230 00:32:49.830 --> 00:33:06.019 Jeryl Jones: And, wow, what a breakthrough, because definitely, I did the bathing and dipping and spraying and awful, awful experiences with that. So happy that we have things that are topical, or that you can give by mouth now. 231 00:33:08.870 --> 00:33:18.279 Debbie Jackson: I… I think, when you were doing the data research, there were two pieces that really stood out on me, and one of them was the fact that 232 00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:28.080 Debbie Jackson: It looks like the pros of pet ownership, the real pro is that it keeps people sort of at home, maybe. 233 00:33:28.210 --> 00:33:39.549 Debbie Jackson: that they're more active, they stay more physically or mentally alert to take care of their pets. That has some real benefits, and the social piece of it in particular. 234 00:33:39.930 --> 00:33:43.120 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, because a dog will nag you to take it for a walk, right? 235 00:33:43.120 --> 00:33:44.420 Debbie Jackson: Yeah. 236 00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:49.230 Jeryl Jones: When you're out walking the dog, people will stop and interact with you and talk to you, and… 237 00:33:49.230 --> 00:33:49.910 Debbie Jackson: Damn. 238 00:33:49.910 --> 00:33:50.690 Jeryl Jones: Yeah. 239 00:33:50.970 --> 00:33:57.359 Debbie Jackson: And make… just the routine of getting up and getting dressed. You know, you see that sometimes lost, because people don't… 240 00:33:57.570 --> 00:34:09.210 Debbie Jackson: You know, they're just like, well, why do I need to? I'm just gonna go back to bed in a little bit anyway. But if you've got that dog or cat or something that's moving them around to get them out and doing things, I think it's really, really wonderful. 241 00:34:09.650 --> 00:34:11.689 Jeryl Jones: A personal trainer. 242 00:34:11.690 --> 00:34:19.260 Debbie Jackson: The personal trainer. And I love knowing about the fact that there's an app for, pet 243 00:34:19.530 --> 00:34:31.780 Debbie Jackson: pet sitters and things like that. I hadn't really seen that, and that seems like a really benefit as well, being able to find someone in the area that you can know to trust with your animal. 244 00:34:32.290 --> 00:34:43.730 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, and that's the advantage of… it's like Uber. I mean, you go into the app and you get reviews of that person that have been submitted by other people that have used them. 245 00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:49.800 Jeryl Jones: So that's helpful information to have. And you also get information about what their background and training and 246 00:34:50.070 --> 00:34:52.809 Jeryl Jones: Yeah. Well, which I like, yeah. 247 00:34:53.340 --> 00:35:11.040 Lee Crandall: It is another expense that, when you're talking about vet bills being expensive, the other thing for us, because we travel a fair amount, is that we have to always hire somebody to stay here at the house with the animals, and so that adds at least $100 a day for every day that you're away on a trip. 248 00:35:11.210 --> 00:35:22.310 Jeryl Jones: That's true. But you may be able to get, students, from, like, pre-veterinary programs and veterinary programs to help out with some of that for a little bit less, because. 249 00:35:22.310 --> 00:35:23.540 Lee Crandall: Yeah, yeah. 250 00:35:23.540 --> 00:35:25.200 Jeryl Jones: Experience hours, yeah. 251 00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:30.779 Lee Crandall: The question is to have somebody you trust, and we've not had good experience with 252 00:35:30.980 --> 00:35:38.850 Lee Crandall: Students doing that sort of thing, and where we live is… there are a lot more people my age than there are student age. 253 00:35:39.460 --> 00:35:42.889 Jeryl Jones: Okay, okay, that's good to know. Thank you for sharing that. 254 00:35:43.460 --> 00:35:59.019 Debbie Jackson: We had a similar problem with the dog sitter. The first time the student stayed with us, it was really a good experience. The second time, we could tell when we came back, she had not spent as much time at the house as we paid her to stay at the house. 255 00:35:59.600 --> 00:36:06.200 Debbie Jackson: And so, I think that consistency, maybe, I think maybe now that there are reviews that are being done, and it's a way of 256 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:18.720 Debbie Jackson: posting that might help, sort of making choices about who's staying. But, particularly when they're staying at the house. Clemson is… is not an easy place to find a kennel close by. 257 00:36:18.830 --> 00:36:28.450 Debbie Jackson: That really has… and I like a… you know, when I have a dog, I wanted him to be able to run around and be active. I didn't want him in a small… 258 00:36:28.950 --> 00:36:29.990 Debbie Jackson: Cage. 259 00:36:30.270 --> 00:36:39.450 Debbie Jackson: I wanted a big space, and I think, Victoria, you have a place where you take your dog for doggy daycare, don't you? 260 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:46.169 Victoria Musheff: I don't… I don't do doggy daycare, but I do… they… they now have these corporate, 261 00:36:47.190 --> 00:37:05.679 Victoria Musheff: kennels, if you will, that have certain standards that you can rely on, which are… I think tend to be nice, and so I keep my dog at a place real close to I-85, so I can drop my dog off, hop on the highway, to go to the airport, or do whatever I'm doing, and come back and pick them up as well, so… 262 00:37:05.680 --> 00:37:12.870 Victoria Musheff: I can't think of the name of mine right now, it's, Camp Bow Wow, I think, or something. There's one in Rock Hill I used to use that was, 263 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:23.649 Victoria Musheff: called, you know, some sort of lodge or something. So, I mean, you can at least find a name that's a franchise that… that has, you know, national standards and use that, too, so… 264 00:37:23.980 --> 00:37:25.590 Victoria Musheff: I've had a great experience. 265 00:37:26.750 --> 00:37:30.830 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, if they have a national organizational oversight. 266 00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:31.840 Victoria Musheff: Yes. 267 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.610 Jeryl Jones: control, that can be a good thing as well, yeah. 268 00:37:34.610 --> 00:37:35.240 Victoria Musheff: Yeah. 269 00:37:35.240 --> 00:37:35.840 Jeryl Jones: Absolutely. 270 00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:41.960 Debbie Jackson: Well, did that school actually do any boarding of animals, or are they going to have any kind of… 271 00:37:42.140 --> 00:37:46.200 Debbie Jackson: Like, clinic or something that where you can take pets? 272 00:37:47.370 --> 00:37:56.229 Jeryl Jones: My understanding is there's not plans to do any boarding or grooming or anything like that. They're not going to have a teaching hospital, per se. 273 00:37:56.500 --> 00:38:02.609 Jeryl Jones: But there is a plan to have a community practice set up in one of the, 274 00:38:02.950 --> 00:38:05.050 Jeryl Jones: clinical services buildings. 275 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:10.640 Jeryl Jones: And I don't know how big that's gonna be, and what its capabilities for overnight will be. 276 00:38:11.660 --> 00:38:14.159 Debbie Jackson: But it'll… there may be, like, a… 277 00:38:14.380 --> 00:38:19.939 Debbie Jackson: A place where you could take your dog for an unusual… or your cat for an unusual illness. 278 00:38:19.940 --> 00:38:26.370 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, I mean, my understanding is that their intention is that this would be primary care, veterinary medicine. 279 00:38:26.580 --> 00:38:29.509 Jeryl Jones: They're gonna focus more on wellness. 280 00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:31.240 Debbie Jackson: Okay. 281 00:38:31.240 --> 00:38:36.790 Jeryl Jones: We're also going to have people, you know, that will take care of medical problems when they happen as well. 282 00:38:37.340 --> 00:38:45.180 Debbie Jackson: Are they gonna do big animals? I mean, we've got horses and cows and pigs, are they gonna include that in the vet program? 283 00:38:45.180 --> 00:38:54.180 Jeryl Jones: I think they've already begun doing, large animal veterinary care services using an ambulatory service, so basically… 284 00:38:54.180 --> 00:38:55.239 Victoria Musheff: I've seen that truck. 285 00:38:55.240 --> 00:38:55.639 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, they. 286 00:38:55.640 --> 00:38:59.299 Victoria Musheff: Go around. It's obviously, it's, you know, a vet service. 287 00:38:59.300 --> 00:39:07.109 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, I think they've already begun doing that. They've got large animal veterinarians hired to go on the trucks and go out to the farms and help out. 288 00:39:07.470 --> 00:39:09.919 Debbie Jackson: That's great. Wonderful. 289 00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:14.590 Victoria Musheff: Do you know why they didn't choose to do a hospital? Was it the cost of all of that, or… 290 00:39:14.650 --> 00:39:27.149 Jeryl Jones: Yes, they did a very detailed, feasibility study with Dr. Boyd Park, the former state veterinarian, as a member of that group, and then Dr. Tim Boosinger. 291 00:39:27.170 --> 00:39:36.150 Jeryl Jones: who, was the provost at Auburn University and the dean of Auburn's veterinary school. And they had, 292 00:39:36.860 --> 00:39:44.889 Jeryl Jones: Several other veterinarians involved in the feasibility study to get a feel for the pros and cons and the costs. 293 00:39:45.470 --> 00:39:50.420 Jeryl Jones: And their analysis indicated that There are… 294 00:39:50.790 --> 00:39:56.219 Jeryl Jones: many disadvantages of a teaching hospital. One of the disadvantages was that 295 00:39:56.740 --> 00:40:01.960 Jeryl Jones: They primarily focus on more advanced veterinary care. 296 00:40:02.200 --> 00:40:06.449 Jeryl Jones: So, people send their pets to a teaching hospital when they've already 297 00:40:06.540 --> 00:40:12.889 Jeryl Jones: Had treatment by their primary care vet, and then their animal has something more advanced and more difficult. 298 00:40:12.940 --> 00:40:27.300 Jeryl Jones: to take care of. So the concern is the students are not seeing cases that are consistent with everyday practice. They're seeing cases that are more advanced. And, the other concern about a teaching hospital 299 00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:33.180 Jeryl Jones: Is the cost of maintaining faculty who are clinically trained? 300 00:40:33.340 --> 00:40:38.610 Jeryl Jones: In a teaching and hospital environment, because the, 301 00:40:38.790 --> 00:40:46.679 Jeryl Jones: Salaries they can command in private practices are so much higher than they can offer in a teaching hospital. 302 00:40:46.930 --> 00:40:51.989 Jeryl Jones: And then the third disadvantage was the cost of maintaining the facilities. 303 00:40:52.150 --> 00:40:55.499 Jeryl Jones: So, a teaching hospital has to have state-of-the-art… 304 00:40:55.660 --> 00:41:04.799 Jeryl Jones: Everything in order to be able to train residents, which are specialists, and the cost of maintaining those facilities was very, very high. 305 00:41:04.990 --> 00:41:08.890 Jeryl Jones: So, Clemson chose to do what they call a hybrid model. 306 00:41:09.010 --> 00:41:14.449 Jeryl Jones: Where some of the student teaching is going to be done in-house, so at the… 307 00:41:14.620 --> 00:41:32.289 Jeryl Jones: clinical practice that they're going to have, a community practice. They're also going to set up a practice at the dairy farm, and they're going to have this ambulatory practice, which are in-house. And I think they're going to also have some training done at the Godley Snell Research Center, and at the, 308 00:41:33.340 --> 00:41:49.499 Jeryl Jones: Clemson Livestock Poultry Health Center in Columbia, South Carolina. So they're going to have some in-house training, but the rest of it will be distributed out to veterinary practices, and the advantage of that is that the students will have more of a real-world experience. 309 00:41:49.680 --> 00:42:03.049 Jeryl Jones: working on real clinical cases in a real veterinary practice. And there's going to be training for each of the people, so that the people that are overseeing the students will have to undergo training ahead of time on how to 310 00:42:03.170 --> 00:42:16.920 Jeryl Jones: establish learning objectives, how to do assessments, you know, all the… the logistics of teaching as well. So, that's the… that's the goal, that's what they've been approved to do, and they've got their team hired to make it happen. 311 00:42:17.420 --> 00:42:25.349 Victoria Musheff: I'm so glad I asked that question. Yeah, and it's… I think it's a really interesting opportunity for the local vets to participate in that. 312 00:42:25.350 --> 00:42:38.809 Jeryl Jones: Oh, they're excited. Oh my goodness. The support that we've gotten from South Carolina veterinarians is amazing. And we've gotten people from North Carolina and Georgia, who are Clemson grads, also pitching in, so… 313 00:42:38.810 --> 00:42:40.459 Victoria Musheff: Anyone else doing those models? 314 00:42:40.660 --> 00:42:51.570 Jeryl Jones: Yes, so we got ideas by visiting several different veterinary schools that are using this distributive model, and we learned from them and built on what they've done. 315 00:42:52.010 --> 00:42:52.770 Victoria Musheff: Meet. 316 00:42:54.220 --> 00:42:57.080 Debbie Jackson: That's exciting. That's really fun. 317 00:42:57.080 --> 00:42:58.970 Jeryl Jones: Starting at all. 318 00:42:59.790 --> 00:43:05.150 Debbie Jackson: I can't believe the first class of students has already been accepted. Isn't that… I mean, that's wonderful. 319 00:43:05.150 --> 00:43:12.030 Jeryl Jones: Yep, they'll be making their final decision during April, this month, of… of accepting or sign… and signing on. 320 00:43:12.540 --> 00:43:17.939 Jeryl Jones: And they will start in the fall. They'll be working on them over the summer with some orientation stuff. 321 00:43:18.660 --> 00:43:20.790 Jeryl Jones: And they'll start classes in fall. 322 00:43:20.790 --> 00:43:23.289 Debbie Jackson: That is super. That's so super. 323 00:43:24.310 --> 00:43:31.519 Debbie Jackson: before I let Jerry go, is there… are there any more questions that anybody has? I don't want to, 324 00:43:32.160 --> 00:43:35.340 Debbie Jackson: Cut us short if… if you have some questions. 325 00:43:35.810 --> 00:43:37.430 Debbie Jackson: And I don't know, there you go. 326 00:43:37.430 --> 00:43:49.069 Lee Crandall: a question, but I was just struck by the perils. I spent the first 18 years of my career in community health and family medicine at the University of Florida. 327 00:43:49.070 --> 00:43:57.849 Lee Crandall: And the argument we made for having a family medicine residency program out in the community is almost the same rationale. 328 00:43:57.850 --> 00:44:06.060 Lee Crandall: that you're talking about for the veterinary school, because, Shands Hospital at the University of Florida was a 329 00:44:06.060 --> 00:44:21.030 Lee Crandall: tertiary and quaternary care hospital, and I remember one resident saying, you know, I see lupus cases all the time, but I have never seen a case of measles. And you know, I think that notion of training 330 00:44:21.380 --> 00:44:27.059 Lee Crandall: Veterinarians to see things in the community that they're really going to see out in practice is great. 331 00:44:27.730 --> 00:44:38.600 Jeryl Jones: Yes, it's a growing trend, and I think many, many people are getting on board with that idea. More and more veterinary schools are going to try to embed community practices in their teaching hospitals. 332 00:44:39.290 --> 00:44:41.310 Jeryl Jones: So that we can train them that way. 333 00:44:44.970 --> 00:44:51.970 Jeryl Jones: Anybody want to share a story of their own personal journey with pet ownership, or… 334 00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:54.719 Jeryl Jones: How they made the decisions that they made. 335 00:44:59.500 --> 00:45:00.290 Dee Stegelin: My husband… 336 00:45:00.290 --> 00:45:02.009 Debbie Jackson: Go ahead, Dee. 337 00:45:02.010 --> 00:45:10.509 Dee Stegelin: Yeah, my husband and I both grew up on farms in Kansas, so we've had pets most of our marriage, and about 338 00:45:10.590 --> 00:45:22.479 Dee Stegelin: I didn't know, it's been about 8 years ago. We had 2 Maine Coon cats, and they were just wonderful companions, but they passed from just old age. 339 00:45:22.750 --> 00:45:24.680 Dee Stegelin: And so we've not… 340 00:45:24.740 --> 00:45:33.699 Dee Stegelin: gotten a pet since, and we travel a good bit, and my husband's developed some allergies and sensitivity to cats. 341 00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:46.650 Dee Stegelin: So, we're… we're sort of petless right now, and most of the time, I think it's a good decision because we travel a good bit, and because of his sensitivity. 342 00:45:46.710 --> 00:45:55.659 Dee Stegelin: But we go to our friends' houses, and they'll have a cat, and it'll come up and curl up in my lap, and then I miss the… 343 00:45:55.880 --> 00:46:10.320 Dee Stegelin: The social, emotional, just the bonding of the animal. So, it's a mixed bag, but right… for right now, and we have each other, I think if I were living alone, I probably would go ahead and get a cat. 344 00:46:11.120 --> 00:46:19.949 Dee Stegelin: So I think you have to sort it out, sort of, as you go through your life, and… and weigh the pros and cons, knowing that it may change. 345 00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:35.200 Jeryl Jones: Thank you for sharing that. Absolutely, it's a very personal decision, and it does boil down to those kinds of conversations, yeah. How much do you miss having that bond versus whether you have those constraints? Yeah, absolutely. 346 00:46:37.550 --> 00:46:40.349 Jeryl Jones: I'm glad you're able to get your cat fix going elsewhere. 347 00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:55.610 Debbie Jackson: We miss our dog, but our daughter has… lets us, sit with her… her animals. So when she goes out of town, we get to have a dog. 348 00:46:56.080 --> 00:47:00.700 Debbie Jackson: But not… otherwise, we're… we… 349 00:47:01.010 --> 00:47:08.839 Debbie Jackson: My husband and I are in disagreement about getting a puppy after our dog died, or getting another dog, and so we chose… 350 00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:13.339 Debbie Jackson: To stay married and not get a dog. 351 00:47:13.850 --> 00:47:17.970 Debbie Jackson: But getting that fixed every once in a while is important. 352 00:47:18.290 --> 00:47:22.759 Debbie Jackson: And then Bill Stringer brings his puppy by to see us every once in a while, so we get to pet a puppy. 353 00:47:22.910 --> 00:47:33.019 Debbie Jackson: So, that helps too, but it is… it's a hard decision to make. It is. It is really hard. And I think, do you… you talked about travel, and… 354 00:47:33.170 --> 00:47:36.740 Debbie Jackson: And having animals and traveling, it does take a lot more time. 355 00:47:37.110 --> 00:47:49.539 Debbie Jackson: investment to do that. I think, Lee, you mentioned that as well, how much it costs to manage that, but it is different, but I think the hardest part is thinking about outliving your animal. 356 00:47:49.820 --> 00:47:54.509 Debbie Jackson: More than anything, and that what happens to them afterwards? 357 00:47:55.210 --> 00:48:13.419 Jeryl Jones: And that's a good conversation to have with your family and friends, and make that plan. Especially people who own long-lived animals, like horses, and parrots, and macaws, and cockatoos, turtles. Yeah. Yeah, some of them outlive their own owners, they do. 358 00:48:15.860 --> 00:48:19.520 Debbie Jackson: My daughter was not happy when we got a parrot. 359 00:48:19.810 --> 00:48:24.380 Debbie Jackson: So she's learned how to take care of a parent in case she needs to. 360 00:48:24.740 --> 00:48:27.970 Debbie Jackson: Because they tend to be… they do tend to live a long life. 361 00:48:28.160 --> 00:48:36.120 Jeryl Jones: Oh, yes, yes, they do, and that is a very good conversation to have, up front, who's gonna take the parrot. 362 00:48:37.450 --> 00:48:38.230 Jeryl Jones: I agree. 363 00:48:38.230 --> 00:48:39.470 Victoria Musheff: Put it in your will. 364 00:48:39.470 --> 00:48:41.420 Debbie Jackson: You can put it in your well. 365 00:48:41.420 --> 00:48:47.090 Victoria Musheff: Whether they will blind your last wishes or not is hard to say. 366 00:48:47.850 --> 00:48:52.229 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, I would encourage that. Put it in writing, what your wishes are, yeah. 367 00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:56.110 Debbie Jackson: Put money behind it if you want them to keep it. Oh, that's true, you could. 368 00:48:56.210 --> 00:48:58.820 Victoria Musheff: Put a trust for animal care, right? 369 00:48:58.820 --> 00:48:59.780 Jeryl Jones: Good idea. 370 00:49:00.230 --> 00:49:01.010 Victoria Musheff: Yeah. 371 00:49:02.310 --> 00:49:08.660 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, I think for me and my husband and I have had that conversation, too, and we're talking about, you know, be smart. 372 00:49:08.780 --> 00:49:13.240 Jeryl Jones: To not have a dog for a while, so that we can travel, and… 373 00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:17.739 Jeryl Jones: And those kinds of things, and my thought process was… 374 00:49:18.310 --> 00:49:29.630 Jeryl Jones: I won't know until it happens how bad the dog hunger is going to be. And if the dog hunger is really bad, logic has nothing to do with it. 375 00:49:30.240 --> 00:49:32.250 Jeryl Jones: That's true. 376 00:49:32.250 --> 00:49:34.549 Debbie Jackson: That is very true. 377 00:49:34.550 --> 00:49:35.020 Dee Stegelin: Yep. 378 00:49:37.420 --> 00:49:47.199 Debbie Jackson: Well, Jerry, thank you so much for joining us today. This was wonderful. A good discussion and a lot of important points for us all to consider. 379 00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:55.230 Jeryl Jones: And please feel free to email me, anybody that has questions, I'd be happy to have an individual meeting and chat about things. 380 00:49:55.230 --> 00:49:56.300 Debbie Jackson: Okay, great. 381 00:49:56.300 --> 00:49:57.859 Dee Stegelin: I have a question. 382 00:49:58.010 --> 00:49:59.080 Jeryl Jones: Yeah, sure. 383 00:49:59.080 --> 00:50:02.940 Dee Stegelin: Do you, do you do, these kinds of sessions, 384 00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:06.009 Dee Stegelin: In… to public… in public settings? 385 00:50:06.600 --> 00:50:07.720 Jeryl Jones: I have not. 386 00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:10.010 Jeryl Jones: I'm open to that conversation. 387 00:50:10.520 --> 00:50:12.859 Dee Stegelin: Well, I'm asking because, 388 00:50:13.090 --> 00:50:21.250 Dee Stegelin: We have… I'm on the advisory board for the Association of Retirement Organizations in Higher Education. Arohi? 389 00:50:21.410 --> 00:50:30.769 Dee Stegelin: And we're having, our first annual conference since COVID, a face-to-face conference at the University of Florida in October. 390 00:50:31.540 --> 00:50:41.639 Dee Stegelin: And we're seeking some presentations that… these are all retired faculty or staff from colleges and universities from around the United States. 391 00:50:41.780 --> 00:50:45.349 Dee Stegelin: And we don't have any kind of session that's like yours. 392 00:50:45.460 --> 00:50:56.420 Dee Stegelin: And, so I… and I can be in touch with you, but if you might consider, being a speaker at our conference, because I think it'd be very well attended. 393 00:50:56.600 --> 00:51:00.839 Dee Stegelin: And, the University of Florida is… I got my doctorate there, I'm a Gator. 394 00:51:00.950 --> 00:51:20.829 Dee Stegelin: So… and I did my research at Shan's Teaching Hospital, so I can relate to what Lee's talking about. But anyway, I'll be in touch, but if you could give that some thought, I think it would be a really interesting session that a lot of people would be… they would learn a lot, and they would really relate to you. 395 00:51:21.230 --> 00:51:22.299 Jeryl Jones: Great! Well, thank you. 396 00:51:22.300 --> 00:51:25.700 Victoria Musheff: See, what's the date that proposals are due? It's coming up, right? 397 00:51:25.700 --> 00:51:27.140 Dee Stegelin: April 24th. 398 00:51:27.140 --> 00:51:27.830 Victoria Musheff: Okay. 399 00:51:28.090 --> 00:51:34.060 Jeryl Jones: All right, so I'd have to make a decision by then. All right, well, yeah, I'd love to have more conversation about that. Thank you. 400 00:51:34.060 --> 00:51:36.470 Dee Stegelin: Okay, well, I'll be in touch. Thank you. 401 00:51:36.470 --> 00:51:37.300 Jeryl Jones: Right. 402 00:51:38.250 --> 00:51:48.799 Debbie Jackson: Jerry, thank you so much, and we'll see you again soon. I know we've got a couple more topics that we were interested in you coming and speaking to us about, so we'll see you soon. 403 00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:49.680 Jeryl Jones: Alrighty. 404 00:51:49.680 --> 00:51:50.730 Victoria Musheff: Thanks, Sherry. 405 00:51:51.120 --> 00:51:51.720 Dee Stegelin: Bye. 406 00:51:51.720 --> 00:51:53.259 Debbie Jackson: Thank you. Bye-bye.